Payout Structure...

[Peter Bartonek]

Bill;
Well stated!

[Urs Duelberg]

Holy crap! Bill's gotta have balls the size of grapefruits!
Even I couldn't have pulled that one off.
Perfect execution.
I've been wonderin' for a while where da dough goes.

P.S. Take it easy on Attila, he seems like a nice guy.

Urs Duelberg

[Joe Figueira]

Boys,
I believe that each and every one of us have the right to say what we think.
It's also our right to fish whatever series we choose.

I think that most of us fish the Top Bass series for differant reasons.
Here are some of them:

1 low entry fee
2 The paybacks are competitive, if getting rich you should try the F.L.W. or B.A.S.S.
3 Top Bass classic pay backs were,first 12000 and 10th was just over 800.00
4 big fish can be worth over 1000.00
5 almost full fields all season
6 with Ted there are no suprises, what he promises he will provide.
7 Ted keeps it simple, tournaments are held on the same water during the weekend, cutting on travelling and pre-fish time.
8 The fact that Top Bass allows 75 teams to qualify for the classic appeals to a great number of weekend anglers.
9 no cut off periods.
10 no lengthy weight-in.

Madison, you forgot to ad the expenses like insurance,staff, hotel food fees for the parks, but then again you must belive that all of this places sponsor Ted.

Peter I think saw you last Saturday did I not?

Joe

[Jay Martin]

We had a very similar post not long ago that dealt with paybacks. I also have fished all three series and this was my first year fishing Topbass. The reason, the Reelfish`n series folded and Bassmania series conflicted with the CFT`s. So Topbass filled the gap. Not long after signing up I realized what Bill has mentioned on this post (the reason for the other post). What I was hoping is that the anglers would bind together to possible change these payouts for the better of us anglers, instead we jumped on the back of each series we liked and banged heads against each other. Each series has great camaraderie great anglers, great people. The CFT crew helped me this year with trailer problems at the start of the year and boat problems at the end of the year. Bassmania I have to agree with another post Vita is one of the hardest working persons in the industry and her and Andy are great people. I got to know Ted this year and all is good.
All that being said, we come to paybacks and exposure for the anglers.
CFT-each of its different series pay back over 100% and each of its events has television exposure not to mention media exposure.
Bassmania 70% to 80% paybacks limited exposure/fields.
TopBass 55% to 70 % paybacks limited exposure/ full fields.
We as anglers put a lot into this sport both monetary and time. Some of us put a lot of time into finding sponsorship to help us with monetary commitments. For these sponsors they require both our time and exposure to media.
Looking at these three series its a no brainier to distinguish which one will help us with both. If we happen to do well in tournament we get paid for it, possible a shot at a big prize as well boat, motor and trailer (Classic). Also media attention for those sponsors.
If some of the other series organizers could do the same we all win as competitive anglers.
The better for all of us as anglers because we get what we want from all the different series. We as competitive anglers have to get together and inform the series organizers what we would like. Almost guys and girls, like our own players union.
When Ted had a meeting prior to the Rice Lake Classic and asked us what we would like to see changed no one stood up and said how about higher % paybacks and sponsorship prizes. Ted did mention that he has a hard time with obtaining sponsors. We as anglers have to work together jump on our own team and demand a great product from all three series. Banging heads is just not going to do it for us. Were going about it the wrong way.
So how about it, Higher paybacks say 100%, and more media coverage for all three series
Bruce do you want to Start the Competitive Anglers Association.

[Larry Prindible]

wooden shoe, wooden head, wouldn't listen.
man this is getting old . for the guys doing all the bitching about Top Bass, you don't even fish it, so no one gives a damn about your opinion. on the other hand, when guys get lipping off in here about Top Bass, it says one thing to me, Ted has had the best fields and is still topping the rest, sounds to me like Ted is making the other tournies nervous. " how does he get the fields he gets", you ask, a good businessman never tells his secrets. but year after year , he does, and his following is loyal! hmmm.
but for me personally, i will never do a Bassmania tourny again. Andy lost me 4 years ago at the Pheonix when he started swearing and cursing at us all at the docks during morning check-in. hey, i paid this guy to fish, not to listen to that crap first thing in the morning. as
for Ted, he's personable and treats every angler as an equal.

as for the payout structure, it's not hard to understand.
Ted's payouts are based on what he collects, less his expenses. oh ya, for the guys bitching, if your in business for yourself, you understand that!! EXPENSES!! fuel, insurance, rent,(did you think those municipal properties are free to use, try 500-1000 dollars a day ) staff, meals for the staff, oh ya, and that government thing called GST. so when you guys do those calculations, take that into account, i think you will find your percentages are way off base.

so lets drop this . fish whatever you want and keep the insults quiet.

[Fred Whitney]

Joe,

In a perfect fishing world, what you stated “It’s our right to fish whatever series we choose” would suffice. But it’s not perfect with people or should I say professional anglers like Bill and Attila, whose real goal is to convert Top Bass anglers and send them to greener pastures, like Bassmaina & CFT “fat chance”.
People like Bill Madison use their smart wit, logic and research to get their points across to us sheep that have fallen into Ted’s trap.
If you go back up a few posts you will see some of Bill’s amazing work, like Ted Wiehler is one of the Top Bass disciples, uh I think you mean Tim Wiehler there Bill.
Bill makes another observation that we are competing against more teams decreasing our chances at winning less money???? I always though the more teams entered the more money there was to be had???
The math question on Ted’s business looks pretty good; my numbers come out around $34,500. But that’s before expenses, when you take all that into consideration Ted’s profit looks more like $18,000. And that’s before the dreaded Tax man. So go right on ahead there Bill start up your own tournament series and make $356. an hour. I would love to be one of your helpers, I might get rich too.
That final bit of research done on how many fish are caught and how many will survive is interesting, so what your saying is you can put fish in your livewells for eight hours, drive around shaking but not stirring these fish is OK, but Ted putting them into four giant livewell tanks for ½ to 45 minutes before releasing them is not?????

Bill if people think there is some thing better out there they will go to it, its not like they don’t know about Bassmaina & CFT, heck most of them have fished both of these series,
Why don’t you let people go about their business and they will let you do the same.

[Tim Wiehler]

Dear Mr.Madison
This did start out as a question and a genuine question and it was answered in it's entirety, and was happy to offer my "opinion" and facts. Now my name is not Ted Wiehler or (Ted Wieler) but Tim Wiehler. Next you have made a statement about boys getting our facts straight before offering opinions or facts, I assumed that after you went through taking the time to calculate monies received by Ted to fish his tournament that you would have been some what accurate, at assuming the cost of running a tournament series as stated by Larry and others. I too have fished all three series and have enjoyed all of my time on the water at each one of them. How ever you have to concider that not every one has the time nor the income to fish some series or more than one series. That being said we are all doing what we love to do, and that is "fish competitively", doesn't matter where you do it as long as you enjoy it. It's times like this that makes me believe that you and others all take sides or choose or are being forced to choose where your loyalty stands,(all tournament organizers are in this to make some money) when in fact if you asked every angler in every series, there would be an endless number of reasons for why they fish a series. when in fact it's a personal reason for every angler. And slamming one series over another takes us backwards not forward. If we put as much energy into helping to make any series or all series better the sky would be the limit. Instead we sit around talking politics amongst our self accomplishing nothing other then leaving a bad taste in everyones mouth. Tim.

[Michael Gray]

Guys!
don't usually get involved with this but here it is.....
Is it really any of our business how much he takes or doesn't take? Does Ted or Andy or Dan know anything about our personal financial endeavours? Not likely, so what business do we have to critisize theirs. If you don't like what your seeing then leave its as simple as that. They all have every right to charge, payout , or do what ever they want as it is their business just as it is our right to participate or not to participate. If there is a problem with certain payouts then discuss this the organizer right then and there. To be bashing one series or another is just childish I personally hope that we as ADULTS that we could understand this.

BOTTOM LINE: SUPPORT WHO YOU LIKE AND DON'T BASH OTHERS FOR THEIR DECISIONS............kapische??

[Garnet Armitage]

I definetly believe that all these subjects should be decussed and this makes some of the promoters mad. Some really mad.

In this 10 page discussion there has been some remarkable chances in opinions and others agree but never chance opinions. Thats life.

Now a promoter that didn't follow along and even get in the discussion proably would listen to 1 or 2 buddies and make some huge mistakes.

Always Thinking

Garnet

[Danny Dunn]

Dudes,

These posts make my head spin.... They sound the same as this time last year and ..........

I have nothing to add.............for once!

Can't wait until tomorrow! Smallie heaven

Dan:P

[Urs Duelberg]

Do people cry this much about the Toronto Sun Salmon Hunt?
The whole "Hollier than thou" additude is slowly making me sick. Or how about the "for the better of the sport" bulls..t everyone throws into almost every topic......please.
The sad non sugar coated truth is there is no money it!
Your best payout is the salmon hunt. At about $35 per ticket and a boat handed out every week you can't beat it.

Urs Duelberg

[Tim Wiehler]

Best answers when you have nothing worth saying. Thanks Urs.