Payback and Rules

[KenWelsh]

Just wondering if anyone knows yet if there is to be any changes to the payback structure or any of the tourney rules for the 2008 season?

If someone could explain to me how the paybacks are calculated as well would be great.

(I know that I brought it up late last year and others have argued for and against it ... but .... still wondering if any series is going to take it upon themselves to "tweak" their payouts to allow more opporunity for more teams to recoup some of their entry fees ... i.e. paybacks further down (without taking away from the current structure)

Cheers !

[Leo Wybenga]

Ken, we at ECBA (www.essexcountybassanglers.com) have restructured for 2008. Because of the downturn and unemployment in the Windsor/Essex County area we've gone from seven tournaments a season down to four tournaments for 2008. We have also increased the payout structure from five spots if we drew over 30 teams up to 10 spots, with the ninth and tenth payout spots getting their entry fees back. We have lost an average of fifteen teams a tournament in 2007 going from 40-45 teams in previous years down to an average of 29-31 teams last year. We are hoping that the fewer tournaments will afford more teams to come out over the season per tournament. This is ECBAs way of coping with a downturn, at least in our area, of tournament fishing.

[mpiche]

I'm trying to understand the payback structure. As per CSFL website....
The CSFL guarantees to pay back 65% of field at each event plus an additional 15% at the BASSMANIA CLASSIC XI.

80% GUARANTEE of all entries.


So 35% of enties at an individual tourney is subtracted right off the bat right?

How far down to they pay back, and what is the payback structure?

I can't find it on the website.

[Tom Chopin]

payouts are on the entry form. The link on the main page doesn't work.

http://www.csfl.ca/CSFL%202007%20Sch...f%20Events.pdf

[George Buetter]

Tom, that links to the 2007 schedule. If you click on the CSFL schedule link up at the top next to Classifieds it takes you to the 2008 version.

George

[Tom Chopin]

Your right.......I guess their website needs some updating........

[KenWelsh]

This is an issue I believe is going to come up over and over again with anyone NEW to the competitive fishing scene.

The new registration form does detail payouts and HOW they are computed. (i.e guaranteed one spot to first seven teams and then one additional pay spot to every 5 teams afterwards, to a maximum of 15 teams.)

The thing I think people might be having problems with is the ADVERTISED prizes (i.e $8,000 top prize). Need to realize that this is based on 150 boats. The average field size last year was roughly 75 teams per event, save for the Casey Cup and the "double field" events.

The other thing I think people want to know is what they can expect as prizes when the fields are less than 150 boats. From what I can tell ... would have to have a minimum of 77 teams in a field to gain the 15 payspots. Based on that ....

77 @ $250/team = $19,250
$19,250 x 65% = $12,512.50 (to the field)
$19,250 x 15% = $2,887.50 (to the Classic)

The question I have from this point is can we use the structured breakdown of payspots given on the registration sheet and apply the percentages to the total purse available at each event ? (i.e on the form, the top prize based on 150 boat field is 33% of the total available prizes for the event ... can we use 33% as the top prize against the info I posted above ? i.e $12,512.50 x 33% = $4,129.13)

I know others are going to say "who cares ... the cheque is cashable". That's not the issue we are trying to determine hear. There needs to be some element of transparency involved so the anglers can determine what they are fighting for and where the money is going ... that's all. (Keeping peace in the pack )

[George Buetter]

I hear what you're saying Ken but I think that's a pretty tough row to hoe.
There are innumerable "walk-ons" at every tournament, teams that decide at the last minute they're going to fish an event. Vita prepares a sheet at the end of every event that's available to all the anglers listing the teams, money collected and paid out. I don't believe you can assign percentages across the board as the numbers fluctuate too much (but I'm not a math whiz so I might be wrong). And to expect anyone at the CSFL to prepare a breakdown for every possible combination of team numbers is in my opinion asking too much (I don't think that's what you're asking for though).
Suffice to say, the more teams there are the greater the paybacks, and the harder it is to cash a cheque, which as you say, is good on the spot.

George

[Steve Hawkins]

Ken there is a very simple answer to your question.
You are always "fighting for" YOUR entry fees, no other addition money is involved.
Andy's circuit is all above board.

[DerekBrzezicki]

Ken,
I spent 20 minutes on the phone with Andy last night.
I had several questions and needed clarification on some items regarding entry,qualification,payouts etc(not exactly what you are asking about here) and Andy was very willing to talk about it all and settle any inquires I had. I would give him a call and speak with him directly, he actually he insisted I call anytime i felt the need or had questions.

Derek

[Wayne Barlow]

Who cares where the money is split, they provide us with something we love to do and do a great job at it. Take in account for the business.... vehicles, stages, insurance, employees, hosting sites, trailers, scales, live-release boats, fuel accomidations and the list goes on... also remember this is just like everything else in the world, it is a personal business and salaries are involved to make a living.
If you don't think you can finish in the top 15 and get a payspot then tourney fishing may not be for that person. If a team beats 50 other teams they should be rewarded greatly.
CSFL Team, keep doing what you're doing and see ya at the show.

[KenWelsh]

Soryr to have bothered ... I knew what type of response was going to come of it anyways.

But George ... thank you for giving me the heads up that there IS information available when the events occur on how the money is broken down. That's basically all that I was personally asking for.

As for the thumbnail math I did above ... it was a) for the benefit of ANYONE that might not understand WHERE the money is going and b) an attempt to understand HOW the 65% is spread out across the 15 spots ..... nothing more ... nothing less.

CSFL has done a great job and no one was attempting to second guess .... just trying to have a few questions clarified by reputable sources. Isn't that what web boards were created for ?

[George Buetter]

I don't think anyone was taking shots at you Ken. Suffice to say Andy & Vita run a first class operation and if you have questions you can always get them answered somewhere.

George

[PeteGarnier]

Ken, I'm not the sharpest hook in the tackle box for sure; and can barely keep up with his schedule from year to year. However, my understanding is that Andy can, will, and always has made available his payout structure (by precentages and covering potentially varying scenarios(ie: walkons) and would be happy to run you through his formulas on a one to one basis. I'm no authoirity and have never been one to calculate purse's - but I've been told by other competitors that you can almost account for every dollar taken in entries after a weigh-in?...

Derek B. is bang on - give him a call or hit 'im up at next week's Fishing and Boat Show?!

later ............. G!

[Craig Butler]

Like stated above, when your handed your winnings/envelope inside is a COMPLETE breakdown of every penny taken in for that tournament. Not a penny goes missing, the breakdown is very specific, to the point, etc.

Andy's currently swamped with the Fishing and Boat Show but I'm sure he'd take the time to go over any related issues/questions. Give him a buzz @ 416-802-2277

Take care,
Craig